Victorious Wave Men and personality (not unit) destruction

L5R CCG Rules board, 25 February 2015 to 5 March 2015

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 25 February 2015

I have read and understood this ruling about Shiho's attachments. It quotes this passage of the CR: If a Personality leaves play (for example, by being destroyed), all cards in the unit leave play in the same way.

Victorious Wave Men says: After this Follower is destroyed by another player's action or by battle resolution, put it in your hand.

Two questions about this card: 1) Is VWM's trait triggered if another player's action reduces its Personality's Chi to 0? The Chi-death rule says: If a Personality’s Chi is ever zero, destroy him immediately. I know the destruction is from the rulebook, but is it "by" the action? 2) Is VWM's trait triggered if another player's action destroys only its Personality? (for example a lethal duel, or Tested Blade + Okura Is Released, etc.) Same kind of uncertainty here: is the Follower destroyed "by" the action or the rulebook?

Jon Palmer (rules official), 5 March 2015

I have read and understood this ruling about Shiho's attachments. It quotes this passage of the CR: If a Personality leaves play (for example, by being destroyed), all cards in the unit leave play in the same way.

Victorious Wave Men says: After this Follower is destroyed by another player's action or by battle resolution, put it in your hand.

Two questions about this card: 1) Is VWM's trait triggered if another player's action reduces its Personality's Chi to 0? The Chi-death rule says: If a Personality’s Chi is ever zero, destroy him immediately. I know the destruction is from the rulebook, but is it "by" the action? 2) Is VWM's trait triggered if another player's action destroys only its Personality? (for example a lethal duel, or Tested Blade + Okura Is Released, etc.) Same kind of uncertainty here: is the Follower destroyed "by" the action or the rulebook?

In both cases, the follower is being destroyed by the Rulebook. There's no transitive property in the quoted CR passage that moves the cause of destruction to the follower.