A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 28 April 2014
In this thread, it was stated that...
If you combine two Ranged Attacks from Tsurushi Rin, you would only get 1 "floating" Gold.
This is because only the Ranged Attack strength, targeting restrictions, and other modifiers of the combining attack effect carry over to original attack effect.
The Gold producing effect of Rin is a completely separate effect and thus, even though dependent on the attack effect, will not "carry over."
However, here, it said...
Even if you use Fueling the Flames as "secondary" RA in order to increase another "primary" RA, the destruction of your shugenja will occur.
Note that using an ability to combine effects will still have all the remaining effects of the ability occur normally.
The player pays that ability’s costs, then resolves its action’s effects, with one change: instead of creating a separate attack effect, each of those actions’ relevant attack effects adds its own strength (with any modifications) to the strength of the original attack effect.
(Emphasis mine)
These answers, seem to be contradictory. If they are not, what is the distinction between the two examples?
Alex Jones (rules official), 29 April 2014
In this thread, it was stated that...
However, here, it said...
These answers, seem to be contradictory. If they are not, what is the distinction between the two examples?
The difference is that there is an additional condition in Tsuruchi Rin's ability.
Tsuruchi Rin: Battle, (bow): Ranged 2 Attack. If this destroys a card, produce 1 Gold (which can be used later this phase).
Fueling the Flames: Fire Battle: Bow this Shugenja to make a Ranged 6 Attack. Destroy this Shugenja.
And, Combining, p45 of the Comprehensive Rules: As an Interrupt to that action, the player may use an ability from another card in the same unit that is appropriate to the phase and that creates another attack effect of the same kind. The player pays that ability’s costs, then resolves its action’s effects, with one change: instead of creating a separate attack effect, each of those actions’ relevant attack effects adds its own strength (with any modifications) to the strength of the original attack effect.
So, when combined, Fueling the Flames essentially* becomes: Fire Interrupt: Bow this Shugenja to increase the strength of a Ranged Attack from a Battle action by 6. Destroy this Shugenja.
... and Tsuruchi Rin's ability becomes: Interrupt, (bow): Increase the strength of a Ranged Attack from a Battle action by 2. If the Ranged Attack from this Interrupt destroys a card, produce 1 Gold (which can be used later this phase).
The problem is that when used as an Interrupt, Tsuruchi Rin's action doesn't itself create a Ranged Attack, it merely modifies the strength of another Ranged Attack, so the conditional effect is doesn't trigger.
Alex
(*) This isn't quite true: you can't declare either of these actions unless the original action is also a Ranged Attack Battle action, but I've omitted this for clarity.
A player, 29 April 2014
From here:
The difference is that there is an additional condition in Tsuruchi Rin's ability.
Tsuruchi Rin: Battle, (bow): Ranged 2 Attack. If this destroys a card, produce 1 Gold (which can be used later this phase).
Fueling the Flames: Fire Battle: Bow this Shugenja to make a Ranged 6 Attack. Destroy this Shugenja.
And, Combining, p45 of the Comprehensive Rules: As an Interrupt to that action, the player may use an ability from another card in the same unit that is appropriate to the phase and that creates another attack effect of the same kind. The player pays that ability’s costs, then resolves its action’s effects, with one change: instead of creating a separate attack effect, each of those actions’ relevant attack effects adds its own strength (with any modifications) to the strength of the original attack effect.
So, when combined, Fueling the Flames essentially* becomes: Fire Interrupt: Bow this Shugenja to increase the strength of a Ranged Attack from a Battle action by 6. Destroy this Shugenja.
... and Tsuruchi Rin's ability becomes: Interrupt, (bow): Increase the strength of a Ranged Attack from a Battle action by 2. If the Ranged Attack from this Interrupt destroys a card, produce 1 Gold (which can be used later this phase).
The problem is that when used as an Interrupt, Tsuruchi Rin's action doesn't itself create a Ranged Attack, it merely modifies the strength of another Ranged Attack, so the conditional effect is doesn't trigger.
Alex
(*) This isn't quite true: you can't declare either of these actions unless the original action is also a Ranged Attack Battle action, but I've omitted this for clarity.
OK, that makes logical sense, and while the distinction seems kind of fine, sometimes that happens with rules minutiae.
However, it still contradicts this response to Fueling the Flames:
If you combine two Ranged Attacks from Tsurushi Rin, you would only get 1 "floating" Gold.
This is because only the Ranged Attack strength, targeting restrictions, and other modifiers of the combining attack effect carry over to original attack effect.
The Gold producing effect of Rin is a completely separate effect and thus, even though dependent on the attack effect, will not "carry over."
(Emphasis mine)
So, to break this down for using Rin and Fueling the Flames as combinatorial ranged attacks, according to that post:
Rin Ranged Attack strength (2): carries over. Targeting restrictions (standard ones for RAs): carries over. Other modifiers of the combining attack effect (none): would carry over if there were any. Completely separate effect (produce 1 gold if the RA destroys its target): does not carry over.
Fueling the Flames Ranged Attack strength (6): carries over. Targeting restrictions (standard ones for RAs): carries over. Other modifiers of the combining attack effect (none): would carry over if there were any. Completely separate effect (destroy the shugenja): does not carry over.
AkodoGilador's post provides a different reason for why Rin's additional effect does not carry over- namely, that since the gold production is dependent on the ranged attack from that action destroying something, and if combined it strictly speaking will not. Daidoji Ryushi's post says nothing about that dependency, and instead says that you don't get the gold because additional effects of the ranged attack do not carry over. Those two rulings, giving different reasons, both come to the same conclusion regarding Tsuruchi Rin. However, when applied to Fueling the Flames, they give different answers. Bayushi Mamoru's ruling on Fueling the Flames specifically seems to agree with AkodoGilador's, though as Rin is not an issue in that one, it doesn't go into as much detail in that direction.
Which is the correct ruling and reasoning?
A player, 29 April 2014
Alex's ruling and mine stem from an internal conversation we had after Ben's ruling. IIRC we (the rules team) ended up agreeing that all effects needed to happen even when combining (and Fueling the Flames was certainly used as an argument for this), so we esentially agreed that the original Rin's ruling was ok, though for reasons other than the stated. Probably because the discussion didn't change the decision (double Rin still only nets 1 gold), the answer wasn't updated, but the newest rulings reflect the team's position post-discussion.