Re Re Re: Daigotsu Arakan - exp

Do you have to pay the cost of Arakan's action and the entering play costs of the follower when using Arakan's ability?

Daigotsu Arakan - exp Maho Battle/Limited, pay * gold: Equip a non-Unique Follower in your discard pile to Arakan or Zansho. Permanently give the follower Shadowlands.Undead. Lose 2 Honor.

Thanks.

Edit: In all honesty, I'm not entirely sure what * is referring to in Arakan's action. Since it doesn't state what it is. Is it just the cost of using his ability and I can just choose to not pay anything and then bring the follower in to play (paying all costs, of coarse)? Can you explain to me what the * is referring to in his ability? Thanks

In regards to this thread:

Thanks for clearing up what the * means, Palmer. I wasn't aware of these new rules as I am unable to purchase a tin of CoM. Is there another location these new rules can be accessed?

My original question still stands since it was unanswered: Do you have to pay the cost of Arakan's ability and the cost for the follower entering play? His ability doesn't say to ignore the entering play costs so I would only assume the answer is yes thereby paying 12g for a 6gc follower. 6 gold for his ability and 6g for entering play costs.

Jon Palmer wrote:

No. The procedure for the Equip action is changing

Is it changing or has it changed?

I guess what I'm getting at is that right now, in Emperor Edition, you have to pay costs for ANY card entering play, unless an actions says to ignore costs.

Daigotsu Arakan - exp Maho Battle/Limited, pay * gold: Equip a non-Unique Follower in your discard pile to Arakan or Zansho. Permanently give the follower Shadowlands.Undead. Lose 2 Honor.

Daigotsu Gyoken - exp2 Battle/Open: Target your personality and a non-Unique attachment in any player's discard pile: Attach it to the personality, paying all costs and ignoring honor requirements.

Akodo Kobi - exp Reaction: After another player's Battle action resolves which destroyed one of your Lion Clan Personalities at the current battlefield: During the next End Phase, if the destroyed personality is dead, bring him to play ignoring costs and Honor Requirements.

So the difference in Arakan and Gyoken are that Arakan has a cost associated with his action. You must pay this cost (which is the cost of the follower which you indicated). Gyoken doesn't have this cost in his action so his action is free. But when I bring the attachment in to play from Gyoken, I have to pay the required entering pay costs to do so. It is even stated in his action. Now Kobi doesn't have a cost associated with his ability AND gets to ignore costs for entering play since it states it in his ability. Neither Gyoken or Arakan has this in their abilities. So entering play costs are still enforced.

Now how is it that I have to pay the entering play costs for Gyoken's action but not Arakan's?

Starting with cards printed in CoM, and entering full force when IvE becomes legal, Equip now refers to both the rulebook ability and the following sets of effects: "Target your Personality,target an attachment in your hand, and attach it to him, paying all costs."

Note, however, that in cards printed in CoM (and you'll also see this in some GoC previews), the Gold cost [FIXED] will be under IvE rukes [/FIXED] directly associated with the action. So, [FIXED] in the future [/FIXED] when putting a card into play, for example, with Daigotsu Arakan XP's ability, you're still obligated to pay the Gold cost of the card entering play (as represented with the Gold coin icon with the asterisk, representing the variable Gold cost of the card entering play) but [FIXED] in the future that Gold will be [/FIXED] considered part of the action's costs (with all that implies).

Clarification: For the remainder of EE, though, the old rules still stand and you'd still not be paying "for" the action. This will apply when IvE is released.

Per the last thread on Arakan, am I correct in assuming that things such as Kalani's Landing, Yoritomo Singh, and Luxurious Silk would be able to pay for his/Recruitment Stations abilities?

They will, once Ivory Edition is released and the wording implications turn into actual rules. During the overlapping period, though, the old rules still stand.

cards printed in CoM, the Gold cost is now directly associated with the action. for example, with Daigotsu Arakan XP's ability, that Gold is considered part of the action's costs.

Clarification: For the remainder of EE, though, the old rules still stand and you'd still not be paying "for" the action. This will apply when IvE is released.

I'm having a hard time with this ruling as it seems like contradicting statements.

Is the 'pay * gold' the cost of Arakan's ability or not? I quoted you saying it is. It's on his card saying it is. How can we not pay for his ability with Luxurious Silk?

Luxurious Silk Reaction: Even if this card is bowed, when paying for an action: Produce 2 Gold.

Daigotsu Arakan exp Maho Battle/Limited, pay * gold: Equip a non-Unique Follower in your discard pile to Arakan or Zansho. Permanently give the follower Shadowlands.Undead. Lose 2 Honor.

Thanks

It is an unfortunate consequence of dual expansions that some inconsistencies persist for a few months. It is the case with the new wording of Events, and it is also the case with abilities that bring cards into play. The current wordings reflect how will those cards work under the new edition rules, even though that means that we must temporarily accept some incongruences.

Under Emperor rules, the gold cost in the ability must still be treated as being a cost for entering play, even though it is worded as an ability's cost (because that is what it will be under IvE rules). We're setting up things for future changes, trading off current inconsistencies for future consistencies. (Otherwise, cards in IvE would be inconsistent with the new rules, thus we choose to have it happen in the overlapping period between editions)

Edit: Since my references weren't clear, I've clarified further my ruling when referring for future, not current, stuff.