A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 11 July 2013
This came up in a Legacy game. My opponent has Bayushi Shun in play, unbowed and honorable + another personality. I have a dishonored Shosuro Maru xp, whose ability I use to target my opponent's other (non-Shun) personality.
Question is, if he redirects my Maru's ability to his Shun (per the ability itself), can he then use Shun's reaction to destroy my Maru?
Soshuro Maru xp: Scorpion Clan Courtier • Champion of Makoto • Unique • Experienced Open: Bow Maru: Target an unbowed Personality. His controller may redirect this to a different Honorable personality he controls, who then becomes Dishonored. Bow the target.
Bayushi Shun: Scorpion Clan Ninja • Samurai • Magistrate • Ninjutsu 2 Reaction: Once per turn, after another player targets Shun with an action: Target a Dishonored Personality at Shun's battlefield or at home. Destroy him.
------------ Different question from the same game: since Strongholds are now (EE) also considered cards, can Death of Ryoshun be used to nerf a stronghold's abilities?
If so, I can understand this would work with e.g. Dark Path of Shadow's Battle ability, but it wouldn't prevent: 1) Imperial Palace of Fu Leng producing 3 gold for a Shadowlands card? 2) Sacred Temple of the Phoenix producing 5 or 7 gold for a Spell or Shugenja?
However, Open Warfare would indeed prevent the above 2 examples, and would also prevent Kyuden Kitsune from reducing the entering-play cost of Foxes. Correct?
Thanks, Jose
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 11 July 2013
This came up in a Legacy game. My opponent has Bayushi Shun in play, unbowed and honorable + another personality. I have a dishonored Shosuro Maru xp, whose ability I use to target my opponent's other (non-Shun) personality.
Question is, if he redirects my Maru's ability to his Shun (per the ability itself), can he then use Shun's reaction to destroy my Maru?
Soshuro Maru xp: Scorpion Clan Courtier • Champion of Makoto • Unique • Experienced Open: Bow Maru: Target an unbowed Personality. His controller may redirect this to a different Honorable personality he controls, who then becomes Dishonored. Bow the target.
Bayushi Shun: Scorpion Clan Ninja • Samurai • Magistrate • Ninjutsu 2 Reaction: Once per turn, after another player targets Shun with an action: Target a Dishonored Personality at Shun's battlefield or at home. Destroy him.
------------ Different question from the same game: since Strongholds are now (EE) also considered cards, can Death of Ryoshun be used to nerf a stronghold's abilities?
If so, I can understand this would work with e.g. Dark Path of Shadow's Battle ability, but it wouldn't prevent: 1) Imperial Palace of Fu Leng producing 3 gold for a Shadowlands card? 2) Sacred Temple of the Phoenix producing 5 or 7 gold for a Spell or Shugenja?
However, Open Warfare would indeed prevent the above 2 examples, and would also prevent Kyuden Kitsune from reducing the entering-play cost of Foxes. Correct?
Thanks, Jose
1. Unless an action explicitly states that one's opponent is doing the targeting, then the player is still considered to be the one "targeting" the card, even if his opponent redirects his original choice. So yes, Shun could destroy Maru.
2. It was a difficult task to find and change all pre-CE cards that referred to "cards" and change them to read "non-Stronghold cards" in the Oracle. Thank you for identifying the fugitive "Death of Ryoshun", which now has more accurate text.
Alex Jones (rules official), 11 July 2013
Note that the Oracle has different text for Shosuro Maru exp: Battle/Open: Bow Maru and target an unbowed Personality: His controller may choose a different one of his unbowed honorable Personalities; if he did, target him instead and dishonor him. Bow the target.
Alex