Waystation after Paneki rules fix.

L5R CCG Rules board, 9 April 2013

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 9 April 2013

An interaction generated a lot of discussion because of the Paneki's rules fix.

Here it goes: Waystation of the path: Reaction: After another player's action targets your performing Henshin, target another of your Personalities: The Henshin is reborn. Transfer his attachments and tokens to the other Personality. The action's effects that would destroy your Henshin instead overlay him onto the Personality.

Shamate keep: Battle: Choose your performing unbowed Personality and target a Personality with equal or lower Personal Honor: Move him home. Gain 2 Honor if you do not control him.

A Paragon's Strength: Battle: Choose your performing unbowed Paragon: Ranged Attack with strength equal to his Force. Lose 4 Honor.

Henshin A gets sent home by Paragon. Uses waystation's reaction to jump to another body taking his attachments with him.

Question 1: Can he overlay since he wouldn't be destroyed?

Question 2: Assuming he can overlay would the Shamate Keep player gain 2 honor or would the action fail ?

Question 3: Since the Shamate keep text has a condition, how about A paragon's strength ranged attack? Would the honor be lost or would the action fail?

I tried to search around but couldn't get an answer. Thanks in advance.

A player, 9 April 2013

Not sure how a rules fix on playing attachments from their own abilities or from the deck is relevant here...

Question 1: Can he overlay since he wouldn't be destroyed?

No. Waystation of the Path substitutes destruction with overlaying. If there's no destruction effect, it can't be substituted. It'll transfer the attachments, though. See here: Instead

“X instead (of Y)” refers to the substitution of an old targeting, effect, choice, cost, or other game element (Y) with a new one (X). The following rules refer to any use of "instead" or "instead of." See also Changes to costs and payments and Substitution of effects.

If the old Y is prevented or fails before the substitution is applied, the new X doesn't happen.

Example: In “you may bow a personality instead of losing Honor,” you cannot use this to bow a Personality if an existing trait says that you do not gain or lose Honor.

Question 2: Assuming he can overlay would the Shamate Keep player gain 2 honor or would the action fail ?

Waystation of the Path doesn't interfere with the honor gain, nor would it make "the action fail". Note that Shamate Keep only checks who controls the targeted Personality, it doesn't check whether the movement of the target happened or not. Since the Lion player doesn't control the Henshin he has targeted (and nothing in Waystation of the Path will give him control of your Henshin), he will gain 2 because the condition is true independently of Waystation of the Path's effects.

In order to have an "action fail", you'd need to either remove all possible targets before they're chosen , or interfere with the costs so the player can't pay them. Simply interfering with targets, or taking them away after being made, doesn't cause an action to fail per se - the effects of the action will carry on even if the target becomes illegal at a later point. If the target ends out of play before the effects resolve, this will most likely cause the effects on the target to fail, but all other effects (not on the target) will still happen.

Question 3: Since the Shamate keep text has a condition, how about A paragon's strength ranged attack? Would the honor be lost or would the action fail?

The honor loss from Paragon's Strength is unconditional and therefore it'll happen independently of the Ranged Attack or Waystation of the Path.

BTW This was all true before the Paneki's Mask rules fix.