A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 10 March 2013
Hi Rules Team,
As a Kotei player judge during this past weekend, myself, along with others discussed this at great length and I would like an official ruling as it seems many are confused by this interaction.
Relevant text: Kitsuki Judgment Limited: Choose your performing unbowed Magistrate, target a Human Personality, and pay Gold equal to his unit's total Gold Cost, +8 unless he is dishonorable, Kolat, Ninja, or Shadowlands: He commits seppuku.
Astonishing Accusation Reaction: After another player's Political action targets your Personality: Negate its effects.
The way "Kitsuki Judgment" is read according to the rules of L5R is as follows: PERFORMER & COSTS: EFFECT "He commits seppuku." is the effect of the strategy Kitsuki Judgment.
Seppuku reads, to my understanding, as follows (please correct me if I'm wrong): Player Ability: Order Seppuku Open: Any number of times per turn, target a dishonorable Courtier, Samurai, or Shugenja Personality you control: He commits seppuku. Rehonor him. Destroy him. This destruction will not be negated.
Now my understanding of it, and our consensus on how it would be ruled should it come up, is that Astonishing Accusation does in fact negate the effects of Kitsuki Judgment, which according to how it is written is "He commits seppuku." If "He commits seppuku" is negated, the Personality is not destroyed, correct?
EDIT*: If you are going to re-discuss this based on my presented argument, I believe you also have to re-visit the ruling regarding Bad Kharma as well.
Please advise. Too many people are playing this card without full clarity on how it works.
Thanks!
Anthony Head Judge, Vancouver Kotei 2012, 2011 Player Judge, Burnaby/Vancouver Kotei 2013, Calgary Kotei 2012, Tacoma Kotei 2012, Portland Kotei 2012
Jon Palmer (rules official), 10 March 2013
Hi Rules Team,
As a Kotei player judge during this past weekend, myself, along with others discussed this at great length and I would like an official ruling as it seems many are confused by this interaction.
Relevant text: Kitsuki Judgment Limited: Choose your performing unbowed Magistrate, target a Human Personality, and pay Gold equal to his unit's total Gold Cost, +8 unless he is dishonorable, Kolat, Ninja, or Shadowlands: He commits seppuku.
Astonishing Accusation Reaction: After another player's Political action targets your Personality: Negate its effects.
The way "Kitsuki Judgment" is read according to the rules of L5R is as follows: PERFORMER & COSTS: EFFECT "He commits seppuku." is the effect of the strategy Kitsuki Judgment.
Seppuku reads, to my understanding, as follows (please correct me if I'm wrong): Player Ability: Order Seppuku Open: Any number of times per turn, target a dishonorable Courtier, Samurai, or Shugenja Personality you control: He commits seppuku. Rehonor him. Destroy him. This destruction will not be negated.
Now my understanding of it, and our consensus on how it would be ruled should it come up, is that Astonishing Accusation does in fact negate the effects of Kitsuki Judgment, which according to how it is written is "He commits seppuku." If "He commits seppuku" is negated, the Personality is not destroyed, correct?
EDIT*: If you are going to re-discuss this based on my presented argument, I believe you also have to re-visit the ruling regarding Bad Kharma as well.
Please advise. Too many people are playing this card without full clarity on how it works.
Thanks!
Anthony Head Judge, Vancouver Kotei 2012, 2011 Player Judge, Burnaby/Vancouver Kotei 2013, Calgary Kotei 2012, Tacoma Kotei 2012, Portland Kotei 2012
Conveniently, there's a whole thread about this already, where Donny tactfully used Remorseful Seppuku to ask the question about Kitsuki Judgment before questions about Kitsuki Judgment were allowed.
"Commits seppuku" on a card is shorthand for “Rehonor him, then destroy him; these effects will not be negated.” from the rulebook, in the same way that "Ranged X" is shorthand for the rulebook definition of a ranged attack of that strength. Just read the card as if it had the full text of the seppuku definition instead of the shorthand used, and you will see that negation effects cannot stop the rehonoring and destruction from any action that orders a Personality to commit seppuku.
Remember also that Kitsuki Judgment is not ordering anyone to take the Player Ability "Order Seppuku". What you really want to reference is the seppuku definition here.