Shiba Sansesuke vs Midday Shadow Court

L5R CCG Rules board, 27 November 2012 to 2 December 2012

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 27 November 2012

Being and avid Phoenix player I have had some timing issues with Sansesuke. If I have out Sansesuke and Isawa Mitsuko XP and my opponent is playing Midday Shadow Court. (On my turn) I play a spell on Mitsuko during the action phase. My opponent targets Mitsuko with the Midday's open action,. I bow Sansesuke as a reaction to make him the target instead. The question arises, Do I then lose an honor and have Sansesuke Dishonored because he reacted.The timing of the reaction is what is comes down to. Does his reaction end before the text of Midday comes into effect? We had a similar question regarding Sansesuke vs Hotako. But we figured that his reaction interupts her ability and so he can pull the target onto himself but then after that couldn't perfrom any actions. With this I wasn't sure if the act of pulling the targeting to himself trigger Middays ability. I would say no because the action he performs is to become the target and ends, And this target text is listed before the ":" on Midday's ability. So the Sansesuke's action would resolve and then Midday's ability is imposed on him. So any action after that point that he performs such as to straighten would trigger Midday's text. Here is the revelvant text.

Midday Shadow Court - When a Lobby action checks Family Honor, your Honor is treated as 20 points higher. Political Open: Even if this card is bowed, target another player's Personality: After the next time this turn he is assigned, or an action that he performed ends, dishonor him and his controller loses 1 Honor. Shiba Sansesuke Reaction: When an action would target your Shugenja at Sansesuke's location, bow Sansesuke: The action targets him instead, if legal.

Jon Palmer (rules official), 2 December 2012

Being and avid Phoenix player I have had some timing issues with Sansesuke. If I have out Sansesuke and Isawa Mitsuko XP and my opponent is playing Midday Shadow Court. (On my turn) I play a spell on Mitsuko during the action phase. My opponent targets Mitsuko with the Midday's open action,. I bow Sansesuke as a reaction to make him the target instead. The question arises, Do I then lose an honor and have Sansesuke Dishonored because he reacted.The timing of the reaction is what is comes down to. Does his reaction end before the text of Midday comes into effect? We had a similar question regarding Sansesuke vs Hotako. But we figured that his reaction interupts her ability and so he can pull the target onto himself but then after that couldn't perfrom any actions. With this I wasn't sure if the act of pulling the targeting to himself trigger Middays ability. I would say no because the action he performs is to become the target and ends, And this target text is listed before the ":" on Midday's ability. So the Sansesuke's action would resolve and then Midday's ability is imposed on him. So any action after that point that he performs such as to straighten would trigger Midday's text. Here is the revelvant text.

Midday Shadow Court - When a Lobby action checks Family Honor, your Honor is treated as 20 points higher. Political Open: Even if this card is bowed, target another player's Personality: After the next time this turn he is assigned, or an action that he performed ends, dishonor him and his controller loses 1 Honor. Shiba Sansesuke Reaction: When an action would target your Shugenja at Sansesuke's location, bow Sansesuke: The action targets him instead, if legal.

No, Sanesuke's (re)action fully ends before Midday Shadow Court's effect is upon him. Unless he assigns or performs another action this turn, the Midday Shadow Court dishonor/honor loss will not happen.