L5R CCG Rules board, 30 October 2012 to 4 November 2012
A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 30 October 2012
If I use Jurojin's Blessing's Limited action and see a Hato-gurama, can I choose to discard it?
Hato-gurama You may not choose this card to be discarded as a cost or effect of your actions if you have other cards in your hand.
Jurojin's Blessing Limited: Look at the top card of your Fate deck. You may discard it.
http://rules.l5r.com/EE_Glossary_D#Discard The phrase "discard a card" by itself is short for "discard a Fate card from your hand." The phrase "discard a [card type or keyword]" also refers to discarding from the hand, unless otherwise stated.
Jon Palmer (rules official), 30 October 2012
If I use Jurojin's Blessing's Limited action and see a Hato-gurama, can I choose to discard it?
Hato-gurama You may not choose this card to be discarded as a cost or effect of your actions if you have other cards in your hand.
Jurojin's Blessing Limited: Look at the top card of your Fate deck. You may discard it.
http://rules.l5r.com/EE_Glossary_D#Discard The phrase "discard a card" by itself is short for "discard a Fate card from your hand." The phrase "discard a [card type or keyword]" also refers to discarding from the hand, unless otherwise stated.
No, unless you have no cards in your hand at the time. A discard is still a discard even when it's coming from a separate location.
I understand the fact that the word "discard" is the same for both cards, but there is another technical detail.
Hato-gurama reads "you may not choose this card to be discarded", but Jurojin's Blessing doesn't give me a choice of which card to discard: it's necessarily the top card of my deck. Does the referenced ruling still hold?
Jon Palmer (rules official), 2 November 2012
In reference to this: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=100319
I understand the fact that the word "discard" is the same for both cards, but there is another technical detail.
Hato-gurama reads "you may not choose this card to be discarded", but Jurojin's Blessing doesn't give me a choice of which card to discard: it's necessarily the top card of my deck. Does the referenced ruling still hold?
A choice can be within a set of one option. You're still choosing it to be discarded via Jurojin's even tho there aren't any other cards that can be discarded.
Improved Defenses: Battle: Bow your performing Artisan at any location and discard the top card of your Fate deck: Increase the current battlefield's province's strength by the card's Focus Value plus one.
Can I choose to announce this action if I have used Jurojin's and know the top card of my fate deck is a Hato-gurama? What if I don't know the top card of my fate deck, and I announce this action, and it ends up being a Hato-gurama?
Wouldn't the clause "choose this card to be 'x'" mean to choose one of many for whatever 'x' is? Whereas "choose to have (emphasis mine) this card to be 'x'" be more of a meaning of "choose to have the ability/capability (emphasis mine) for this particular card to be 'x'?"
Also, given the clause: "if you have other cards in your hand." Wouldn't this mean in it's own texting that the requirement for the previous clause to be fulfilled that you would need Hato-Gurama *and* at least one other card in hand that is *not* Hato-Gurama?
Thanks!
(Relevant Text) Hato-gurama You may not choose this card to be discarded as a cost or effect of your actions if you have other cards in your hand.
A player, 3 November 2012
Hato-Gurama and Jurojin's Blessing (cont.)
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=100319
I was under the impression that with Jurojin's Blessing Limited: Look at the top card of your Fate deck. You may discard it.
that the card you peak at is replaced face down is replaced before the option to discard it meaning that game state would forget what the actual card is which would mean you in theory "don't know what it is" cancelling the trait. Or is this coming under the good faith rule in which case "will not be discarded" trumps "you may discard"?
Am I just incredibly wrong about how game state works in general?
Alex Jones (rules official), 4 November 2012
Hato-Gurama and Jurojin's Blessing (cont.)
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=100319
I was under the impression that with Jurojin's Blessing Limited: Look at the top card of your Fate deck. You may discard it.
that the card you peak at is replaced face down is replaced before the option to discard it meaning that game state would forget what the actual card is which would mean you in theory "don't know what it is" cancelling the trait. Or is this coming under the good faith rule in which case "will not be discarded" trumps "you may discard"?
Am I just incredibly wrong about how game state works in general?
You may not look at or show the top card of your deck and then discard it a part of the same action or trait. However, if you look at or show it as an effect of one action, game state "forgets" what the card is if a later action causes you to discard the top card of your deck.
See the Tracking Rule: “Memory” of the status of individual cards ends when the card enters a deck or a hand, or otherwise becomes both face-down and out of play (such as after a card in the deck or hand is shown). This includes dishonorable status, ongoing effects, the state of the card earlier in the game (such as having assigned), and whether or not an ability has been used.
EXCEPTION 1: A card's role in a series of consecutively applied costs and effects from a single action or trait is not "forgotten" from one effect to the other -- for example, if you are asked to draw a card and then show it, you must show the same card. If a card being tracked in this way is in a deck that is then shuffled, the tracked card is set aside during the shuffling; if it then needs to return to the deck, it is shuffled in again.