Oracle of the Void #rules

Yes.

Under the newer arcs, correct.

Hmm. I need to make a spreadsheet to track what rules changed in what arc.

Or, if you have a kata that gives you an ability, can you play an identical kata and have it overwrite the old one, letting you repeat the action?

What he said.

With the once per turn rule on abilities, that means a card that bows for a cost can't repeat the same action just because they were unbowed?

But like Dragon of Fire could do both attacks if unbowed, because they are two separate abilities?

(meaning does one ranged, unbows, then does the other)

Katas and allegiance cards stay in play but abilities granted by them (or by permanent events such as Coronation Festival) are once per turn unless listed otherwise. If a card has two separate abilities, these can be used once each. If each ability requires bowing, such as Oracle of the Void exp then you would have to find some way to unbow it in between times. Abilities can be used muiltiple times per turn if they have the repeatable keyword

Also,

Hey, back in Jade Arc, you normally couldn't target your bowed Personalities/Units with actions. Did that include the Favour's Rehonouring ability?

Fair. I've been searching the Accumulated Rulings, but that's a game rules definition, and I lack a Jade Ed. rulebook at the moment.

Yeah. It made for a lot of nuance, and frustration, back in the day, because having bowed dudes was a risk. Bow a Shugenja and they get dishonoured? Well, crap. Favour can't re-honour them, so it'll suck for a bit.

I found scans of a Jade Rulebook. Dang. The links to Clan websites at the back...

Could you share. I have Jade rb in Dropbox but its just a pack of pictures made with phone camera.

Sorry, it is that. Just photos of the rulebook held open.

At some point soon I'm hoping to go on a shopping spree and buy some sealed Jade starters, and at that point I'll do a proper scan. Take one apart and PDF it.

Hmm. Hitomi Munoto is not experienced himself.

So he's a non-Unique Soul of an Experienced and Unique Personality. #NotConfusing

:baro_tea:

Oh, right. He is Unique, just non-Experienced.

Thanks!

Hunh, that must have gotten errataed.

Yeah, the F&S one was worded to work with Akodo Sensei. It was fun back then.

I'm not sure about which one the game ended with, but during some arcs, I seem to recall that setting a stat to a specific value did not count as a bonus or penalty.

But, it may work in weird way. Akodo Sensei says "Your Samurai with 3 or higher Chi without the Tactician keyword have Tactician, but may not perform Tactical actions that give themselves Force bonuses or the Tactical Advantage rulebook ability.".

Defensive Tactics say (Oracle MRP): "Tactical Battle: Target your performing Tactician to set the Force of each Personality at the current battlefield equal to his own Chi."

So i suppose if an action won't increase Force of main performing Tactician it may still affect other Personalities.

So if there's Tactician (made by Akodo Sensei) with same or bigger Force than his Chi he may perform Defensive Tactics.

Oooo. Good call.

They're not completely identical, Hoshi Oki doesn't have the Tattooed trait.

I'm definitely game with the MRP concept, just trying to see where they go in this binder. :P

So, if I'm reading Yotsu Seou correctly, she can do a Ranged 1 attack, then next action a Ranged 2 attack, and so on until a final Ranged 4 attack?

"Battle: Any number of times per turn, give Seou 1 to 4 Shuriken tokens such that she will not have 5 or more after they are given: Ranged Attack with strength equal to the number of Shuriken tokens given." per the MRP text.

So decidedly less useful, since it can't equal 5 or more at the end.

So I can do 4x RA1, or 2x RA2, or 2x RA1 + 1x RA2.

I missed the "given" part initially, hence my confusion.

But this is still useful, especially with some cheap RA-producing Followers.

Otherwise it feels like a conflict with the one unique action per card.

Yeah, that's missing. Good catch.

So previously, all abilities in L5R were Repeatable until Lotus (?). Then, everything from Lotus forward were Once Per Turn by default.

Probably got missed in the database by accident.

Yeah, the new rules really messed up a bunch of things.

" Any number of times per turn" = "Repeatable". And in Oracle it's " Any number of times per turn"

So technically speaking it's same.

WoH Togashi Oki isn't legal in Modern as Modern requires a card to have Samurai-20F legality bug. But her WoH MRP works in Open/Legacy

In Modern you may play her Soul.

And in eg TOH Legacy this Soul works a much better as its two gold cheaper

in TOH:

"• Clan Discount rule and Out-of-Clan Price Hike Rule is applied to all personalities; regardless of when it was printed."

So I'm curious around the bigger rule changes, and how the player base responded: did people like "removing" Cavalry? The Blood Money rule? Changing how Duelling works (whichever iteration)? Etc.

I for one couldn't keep all the changes straight and gave up trying.

And the ever increasing complicatedness with timing of ongoing effects/reactions/whatever godforsaken semantic synonym was just infuriating

Could one win on Enlightenment victory with the Dragon stronghold (The Remote monastery of the Dragon and using Togashi's Guidance-exp) Battle/open action?

Remote lets you put a Ring into play, then Togashi could search for a Ring, but the Togashi Ring still would prevent you from winning as long as that copy of that Ring is in play.

So if I use the Remote with the Ring of

fire starting and then used Togashi Battle/open to put the Ring of Water for say. I could not win on Enlightenment?

Correct. Togashi requires that as long as that instance of that Ring is in play, you can't win by Enlightenment. If you discarded the Ring of Water that Togashi searched for, and then found another way to play it instead, then the Ring would 'forget' that it was played by Togashi, and you could win again.

Should probably add that the second part of Togashi is search a Ring and it goes to your hand.

If you use the first ability (hand -> play), then it prevents the win. If you use the second ability (discard or Fate -> hand), you can still win.

Ok. Thanks. Just make sure I, Could one win still using the Stronghold start with a ring.

I don't see anything in the text that would prevent it, unless someone smarter than I knows a change.

Ok. Just making sure. And thanks

I started to drop the game because of the gold pool (which didn't bring anything and contributed to standardize the gold schemas), the change of the cavalry trait (I play unicorn)... but especially because of the simplification of the game ("- I give -4 strength to your character" "- ok, then I give him +2 strength"...)

Yeah... people whined for years about difficulty in dealing with Cavalry. I feel like that got conflated a bit with Naval and how that kept changing, and whatever internal/community struggles around Mantis getting lots of help and boost and elevation.

Hmm. What about the changes/introduction of Proclaim and only letting you get Honour off of one Personality a turn? That feels like it opened up the floodgates to high-PH Personalities everywhere. Kinda like Oprah going "You get 4PH! And you get 4PH! And you get 4PH!".

It seems like it was 'updated' to account for the faster overall ccg meta while deliberately shorting things that made the game faster, but in its own way. Like... Proclaim slowing a honor deck, then adding a bunch of weird Honor gaining other cards including Recruit Reactions. I feel like in the day, I played Magic if I wanted fast easy games, but when we played L5R, it was slower and more methodical, and they wanted to get away from that.

And it's not like the bar was difficult for the average gamer. Things that were confusing and drawn out were things like LotR: The Wizards and trying to memorize all the symbols for VteS

L5R seemed to have this weird philosophy after Diamond where they cribbed all the things that modern Magic discarded for being too complicated or counterintuitive.

I got different experience. Pre ivory gold schemes were nearly identical in every deck (as there were also a lot less various holdings printed). In Ivory+ with gold pooling you could include lot of various costs holdings with abilities. And yes, Ivory + 1-2 first expansions was about really dumb and boring force manipulation, but starting with Twenty Festivals base set things became much much more interesting.

Unicorn Strongholds in Ivory and Twenty Festivals added another movement(s).

That's definitely something I appreciated early in the game's history: it both made games by high-level players against each other have another layer and be far more nuanced and enjoyable, and at the same time it rewarded good players to be able to make up for lack of Rares.

My friend group back in the Jade/Gold era would mash two starter decks, and a few packs together and have a relatively good deck. That was a great time for L5R as far as balance on the cheap.

Mmhmm. Luck really played into it, though, for better and worse.

Does this mean draw 2 cards at the end of your turn?

Ayup.

I know in the way back, technically Shadowlands Strongholds are not considered Clan affiliations, but I figure they're so prominent they should be considered their own category.

Does this seem accurate?

Shadowlands is not a Clan so that you can't get Clan Discount when buying their peeps, whether playing at Shadowlands or as another Clan and using Alliance, etc.

Well, not quite. Shadowlands is truly not a Clan or Unaligned designation, it's a keyword (back when those existed).

I put it as Horde instead of just Shadowlands because there are cards that specifically look for 'Shadowlands Horde Player', I think.

Ahh, okay.

That's reasonable.

You just have to give new players a little disclaimer so they don't go breaking the game and buy Ugulu or Tsume for 2G thinking they get a Clan Discount.

And Oni no Kamu.

Being able to do something like Akuma / Kamu / Tsume / There is No Hope turn 1 is amazeballs™.

Or better yet Plains of Otosan Uchi instead of There is No Hope, and flippin' that 2nd turn.

Lately I've been playing a bunch of Clan Wars, up to TotV. It was a fun game, even if wildly swing-y and random. But good decks had such a fantastic back-and-forth, edge-of-your-seat play.

Akuma + Charge + Wedge. 😄

Well, them's good eatin'.

Yeah...

I remember the OG Ratlings, before they had a box. Initially off of Crab, because they offered discounts.

Then the first box from Heroes of Rokugan.

But after that, once they were taken "seriously" it wasn't that great.

Before, it was a novelty, but would catch you off-guard if you assumed they were a joke faction.

Yeah. I remember one of the Kotei at either the end of Jade or early Gold, where I took the OG Rat box and got stomped. It was a good control deck, but the 3 Provinces sucked way too much, as there was no means to cycle or fetch Holdings.

There's lots of that. And the Foo Rule.

Was Foo ever in a rulebook past the original era?

Hrm. Not sure. But I think one of these days when I'm trying to procrastinate from doing something actually useful, I'd like to go rulebook by rulebook and make a spreadsheet to track what rules/mechanics each arc changed.

Yeah.

I didn't play through the second half of the game's life, basically, with a brief exception for some CE, so I'm always confused about what they mechanically changed and/or broke in which era.

Shiro Usagi and Journey's End Keep Exp create their "clans" only if they are in play. There's no Hare of Imperial clan alignment if one of those is not in play.

Shadowlands Horde was a rulebook faction till Samurai. Then they removed it and since then Strongholds like Maw's Grave are considered as Unaligned

It's like the Shadowlands logic I used, is all. If I were to play a Hare or Imperial deck using those strongholds, I would want to find those cards all together.

Shiro Usagi with Tomorrow Sensei would be weird.

Or am I thinking the other sensei, ak' something...

Basically the Hares and Ratlings are all yours.

Oh, it's At'tuk, but it's not an All Clans.

Best Ratling decks don't use Holdings (except starting ones) 😉

Maybe because there's no single card in Ivory that triggers to Bushi keyword. It may affect Legacy only.

I was talking about Ogre Bushi

Ugh. Makes it lame and confusing. Especially given the changes around having to pay/not pay between multiple experience versions.

Fair enough. I was thinking the way they made DotE personalities 'Experienced 7' to prevent overlay confusion, which was then messed up with the two versions of Shosuro.

You play it as a Limited action, and it grants you an ability or two, as written. You can then "overwrite it" with another by playing that one.

Deck construction. You play it as a Limited action, from what I recall.

Most are Limited, I think Ivory onwards had a few that were Open

During your limited

No, you play them as an action from your hand, during the Limited phase. You can do it on your first turn if you draw it in your opening hand.

It stays in play right?

Yes. 'Put this Kata into play.' makes it hit and stick to the playing field.

https://oracleofthevoid.com/#game=l5r,#cardid=7092

When playing him from Ninjutsu is it required to discard thrre cards?

Ninhutsy from Shiro no Soshi of course

So Ninjutsu ignore it?

The artwork on that Stronghold looks like a 90s CGI citadel superimposed onto a photo.

Ninjutsu X means X cost to flip it?